In this episode, Dr. Brenda Murrow welcomes Dr. Rachaël Draaisma for a truly fascinating conversation about the subtle, yet powerful, language of calming signals—what many in the clinical and animal behavior world might also recognize as appeasement behaviors.

Building on past episodes on appeasement behaviors in dogs and humans, this conversation turns to horses—drawing on the work of two influential authors: Turid Rugaas (dogs) and her mentee, Rachaël Draaisma (horses) who have both published books on calming signals, also known as appeasement behaviors.

In today’s episode, Dr. Brenda Murrow takes a look into behaviors we sometimes see in children that can feel confusing or hard to understand—like why a child might stay very close to a caregiver who’s actually causing them harm or distress.

Dr. Brenda Murrow began her career working with children and quickly realized that young kids don’t always use the language adults expect to describe their experiences. Each child has their own unique way of expressing what they feel and see, which makes understanding them a careful process.